~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Current of
Love" #1 of 10
"Filtering
out love and connection-- getting past all our filters, symbols and programs.
The current of intentionality that we create with our thought
forms."
Being in touch with the organism; orgasmic sensibility;
reframing our ideations; honing attention to what serves."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Troimille (yours truly)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This log has been edited.......
Troimille: Well, it looks like we're all here-- may as
well get started, eh?
Alisnntrnt: Barry, begin anytime you like...
Troimille: ::::::: waiting
to be introduced :::::::::::
Alisnntrnt: oh geez!!! ok ok!
Troimille: (as if everyone didn't already know me)
Alisnntrnt: People, if you have read any of the forum
logs then you are
familiar with Barry
Alisnntrnt: :)
Alisnntrnt: this is the first in a series of talks
about love
Alisnntrnt: stayed tuned to the newsletter for more
details
Troimille: (ready for me?)
Alisnntrnt: Please join me in welcoming Barry :)
Alisnntrnt: lol, yep!
Troimille: Hi, BriteFire!
Troimille: Thank you for the nice introduction. I'll
start with a little
about how I got here,
Troimille: and when I've laid out my background, I'll
open for questions.
Don't worry about
Troimille: reading fast enough -- I'll scroll out a
paragraph at a time, and
give you time to
Troimille: read it and ask questions.
Troimille: Here we go, starting with my bio-intro...
Troimille: My primary motivation for all my spiritual
work, starting from
early childhood, has been to
Troimille: "cheat" the tyrannical sentence
of death and suffering that I
found myself imprisoned
Troimille: with. Along the way I studied meditation,
hypnosis and "the hidden
teachings beyond
Troimille: yoga" (mostly fantasy). I think all the
science fiction that I
read so avidly was actually
Troimille: more useful, overall. Then, as a young
adult, I studied in a
school of the practical mystic
Troimille: Gurdjieff for 12
years, where I learned to do self-study, sacred
dance and other exercises
Troimille: with the aim of achieving the "third
state of consciousness"--
after night-sleep and
Troimille: "walking-around" states, this
refers to self-awareness which, it
turns out, is not only NOT
Troimille: the typical condition of people, but in
fact is usually only
manifested at times of
Troimille: emergency or intense ordeals, and then
only in people who have
been prepared to hold
Troimille: the energies and materials required, in
the harmony it takes to do
it. The others either
Troimille: die, go insane, or become distorted.
Personally, I've done all
three!
Tanajtras: And still insane? LOL
Troimille: Hi,
Troimille: Tanajtras, way!
Thottful: oh, sorry I missed that
Troimille: Ok so far?
Troimille: Ok, now for the meat entree'...
Troimille: Tonight's theme is "Opening to Love
Power." I word it that way
because I find that
Troimille: genuine love really is Power. We work with
different aspects of
that power in Tantra,
Troimille: often calling the energy kundalini or other labels. One thing
I've noticed in techniques
Troimille: and "technologies" of working
with these energies, is that we work
in fractional,
Troimille: disjointed ways without cleaning up and
harmonizing all our
energies and processes
Troimille: enough, so we can get mixed, and even
destructive, results. I've
been taught to work
Troimille: with Divine Love, and to let that guide
all my practices.
Troimille: It requires me to prepare myself to
receive love and power,
Troimille: and not just try to add
"goodies" on top of an impure basis,
Troimille: like covering used coffee grounds with
chocolate sauce and calling
it a sundae.
Troimille: This cleaning up and preparing is one
basis for this series of
talks.
Troimille: (Whew!) Ok, ready for comments,
questions...
BriteFire: what are some of the destructive results
that can occur?
Troimille: Haven't we all seen people who are
obsessed, or even possessed or
physically ill, after
Troimille: working with practices in unbalanced ways?
Troimille: I've seen people with obvious neurological
disease after
practicing certain kinds of meditations-
BriteFire: I guess I haven't
Troimille: excessively.
Seekdeeper: Can an individual originate divine power,
or only receive it?
Troimille: I've seen channelers
and psychics with twitches, obesity,
muttering unconsciously...
Troimille: Seekdeeper, the
Source is within us, is it not? But we do only
receive it.
Troimille: How could both statements be true?
Seekdeeper: I partially agree....I think both paths are
available....if you
adhere to co-creation...
BriteFire: would that kind of be like a jar filled
with water at the bottom
of the ocean....
Troimille: Brite, LOL--
right!
Troimille: Seekdeeper, I
*depend* on both ways being possible, but it seems
to require my taking the
Seekdeeper: Nice.....sometimes floating on top!!
Troimille: attitude of receiving.
BriteFire: in that the source is in and around us to
the extent that it's
point of origin is irrelevant
Troimille: See why?
Seekdeeper: Thanks....receiving....building...then
giving back...radiating...
Troimille: Brite, maybe the
difference is what attitude we take toward it--
ego does usurp everything..
BriteFire: indeed
Seekdeeper: all take care...may the spirit light
bathe you always....
Troimille: Ready to go on?
Troimille: The next main basis is the Opening.
Troimille: So much of our early imprinting in this
life has been to close
down
Troimille: all our sensibilities and satisfy
ourselves with empty labels
about them,
Troimille: what I've heard called "categories of
the formatory apparatus."
Troimille: That permits us to "know all about
everything" with no direct
experience,
Troimille: no original thought, no passion and no
responsibility -- how
convenient!
Troimille: And how dead and pathetically empty.
Troimille: The "formatory
apparatus" can be thought of as a bored
Eroplay sorry to interrupt but can u be a little
plainer in your language
Troimille: and poorly paid receptionist who works for
five bosses
Troimille: Eroplay, I am
explaining-- please wait a minute.
Troimille: who do not communicate with each other,
but only with the
receptionist,
Troimille: who spends most of her time daydreaming
and taking extended lunch
breaks.
Troimille: When she does get an instruction, she may
misfile it, drop it in
the trash
Troimille: or garble it. But she may try to identify
and fulfill the
instruction.
Troimille: She searches all her bins of preprinted
forms and finds the form
that
Troimille: comes closest to what it looks like the
memo is asking for,
Troimille: to the best of her discernment. This is
how we have mostly
learned
Troimille: to function in our lives.
Thottful: bins=brains??
Troimille: Ok, see what I'm getting at? We've taken
on an automatic way of
viewing the world.
Troimille: Thottful, it
would be great if they were brains, but they are just
slots and cubbies.
Thottful: I see
Troimille: Does any of you notice that people are
always ready to take what
you've said so thoughtfully
Troimille: ... and just put it in terms that they
"know"?
Tanajtras: As in being robotic
RosieF6834: We have all been taught how others expect us to be... not being
who we can be correct?
RosieF6834: Or who we are in our soul and spirit
Tanajtras: Actually I was wondering if anyone else
understood
BriteFire: yes....I
SoulMan911: all this depends on your environment ...your peer group , if you
follow it
BriteFire: I've had that experience
RosieF6834: I understand very much so...
BriteFire: but I also find that people can only view
anything through their
own perceptions, beliefs
BriteFire: etc.
SoulMan911: and in what you may or may not think ,,what
is right and wrong ..
BriteFire: yes Soul....they attach judgments to it
SoulMan911: but who stands alone ?
Tanajtras: As we do ourselves
RosieF6834: This is true, People need to have an open mind about all things
not just Tantra
Tanajtras: Tantra will open
your mind
RosieF6834: Tantra has indeed opened my mind so
beautifully
Troimille: Hi, again- I rebooted.
Tanajtras: ;~)
Troimille: Anything else before I go on?
SoulMan911: a beautiful sunset could open your mind ...why it is so pleasing
to your senses ,,,
RosieF6834: I have not ever felt so much peace with-in myself, ever.
Tanajtras: Staying in the moment
Tanajtras: Kewl!
Troimille: SoulMan911, that's exactly what I'll be
getting to here.
SoulMan911: please continue ...
Troimille: Ready to go on?
RosieF6834: I'm sorry Troimille go on please
Alisnntrnt: Barry keeps on coming back, give him a
minute :)
Alisnntrnt: or 2 or 3 ;)
Alisnntrnt: lol
RosieF6834: We have definitely learned that patience is well worth the wait
Alisnntrnt: he's not back online yet
Patience9: I am patience
BriteFire: then your presence is most welcome right
now....LOL
Alisnntrnt: any comments on what he's presented so
far?
Alisnntrnt: wb Barry
Tanajtras: Said that to early
BriteFire: well...he was almost back....
RosieF6834: I just feel if 1/2 of this world knew even a little bit about
Tantra it would be a much more
Alisnntrnt: well, I'll stay until he can get it all
out
RosieF6834: peaceful place for everyone
Tanajtras: OOOOMMMMMMMM
Alisnntrnt: or have him mail it to me :)
Alisnntrnt: then I will send it to all of you
BriteFire: Rosie...these principles and ideas are
used in many spiritual
teachings and are in no way
BriteFire: limited to Tantra
Alisnntrnt: I agree Brite
Tanajtras: Well it actually depends on what one
considers Tantra
Tanajtras: And the knowledge that one has about it
BriteFire: it just goes back to the labels again...
Alisnntrnt: explain Tan
RosieF6834: Yes I understand that.... Sometimes I have to bite my lip in
saying how I truly feel
Tanajtras: What one has learned about one thing
another has learned different
Tanajtras: Even though they may practice the same
thing
Alisnntrnt: different mechanisms...
Alisnntrnt: different experiences
TinyTim039: "it" seems to be a means to me, but not an end.... but
then I
could be wrong....: )
BriteFire: Tan....these principles are somewhat of a
constant throughout
spiritual teachings
RosieF6834: few people who do not look at life the way I do. So I try to
get to know them a little
Tanajtras: What is the difference between yoga and Tantra?
BriteFire: Tantra is a form
of yoga
Tanajtras: Not at all
Tanajtras: Tantra is the
science of finding you
Tanajtras: Yoga is the science of the body
BriteFire: yoga = tying back to source
Tanajtras: Yoga will help build your ego
BriteFire: only hatha yoga
fits that description
Tanajtras: Tantra takes
your ego and leaves it on the way side
BriteFire: kundalini yoga
is not about the body...it is synonymous with
Tantra
Tanajtras: Kriyas are Tantra
BriteFire: it is the yoga of awareness
Tanajtras: It is the science of allowing energy to
fulfill your life
BriteFire: and there is bhakti
yoga...the yoga of service
BriteFire: these are not sciences
Tanajtras: Tantra serves
You
BriteFire: but practices
Tanajtras: And in so doing one becomes one with the
Ultimate
Tanajtras: The universe
Tanajtras: or whatever you want to call it
BriteFire: looks like Barry gave up
RosieF6834: Tantra is awareness of your own body an
"aura" But it is also
the awareness of your soulmate
Tanajtras: He probably called
BriteFire: ahh...there he
is
Alisnntrnt: wb Barry
Troimille: Now, how do we get past the formatory apparatus to the goodies?
First thing is to create
Troimille: a quiet center in ourselves
through daily practices - small
differences in our routines.
Troimille: For me it has included early meditation,
remembering my dreams,
non-expression of
Troimille: negative reactions (including internally),
unnecessary courtesies,
Troimille: anonymous goodwill gestures and service,
changing automatic
routines, and self-study,
Troimille: listening to what I say, watching my
responses, feeling my
emotional reactions without
Troimille: assigning any meaning to them.
Troimille: Once I've got this new "routine"
established I can start noticing
the wonderment that we
Troimille: are surrounded with at all times:
Troimille: the breaths I take, the rustling of
leaves, the songs in the wind,
the smells of life
Troimille: and even the smells of other lives whose frequencies
are still
present.
Troimille: In this receptive mode I very often feel
waves and shudders of
sweetness, affection,
Troimille: fondness, coming out of nowhere in
particular. Have you been
noticing such things?
SoulMan911: YES
BriteFire: oh you betcha!
TizSissy00: yes
Troimille: Wow! I made it through a paragraph without
bouncing!
BriteFire: hope you're not too bruised darlin....
Alisnntrnt: lol
Troimille: Do you all get the diff between
"non-expression of negativity" vs
*stuffing* it down?
Troimille: BriteFire, good
thing I'm persistent, eh?
TinyTim039: yes
TizSissy00: yes
Troimille: So, how can we "non-express"
without stuffing?
BriteFire: by moving into acceptance without judgment
Troimille: Does gratefulness & devotion help?
BriteFire: sure does
SoulMan911:
Troimille: SoulMan911, sounds great-- now, how do we
"just have a clear
view"???
SoulMan911: with a positive and spread it, like I said you have to have some
sense of understanding
SoulMan911: compassion..
TizSissy00: my clear view is knowing everyone has
strengths
Troimille: Understanding compassion is good.
Troimille: TizSissy00, is that like knowing that
everybody is equal to
myself?
Esnshl4me: are you saying compassion is still judging Troi?
TizSissy00: yes it is though the strengths may differ person to person
Troimille: Esnshl4me, I didn't think so...?
Esnshl4me: just asking :)
Troimille: TizSissy00, what if they don't exhibit any
strengths?
TizSissy00: everyone does Troimille
TizSissy00: I can find strengths in everyone
Troimille: TizSissy00, maybe you should meet some of
my "friends"...
Tanajtras: But isn't that a comparison?
TizSissy00: well it is my profession, too Troimille
TizSissy00: not a comparison
Tanajtras: And is not comparison judgment?
Troimille: I guess my point is that it is my job to
love and serve them all
regardless.
TizSissy00: a mother living in a tenement may have the strength of loving her
children
SoulMan911: they may even be better than you ....in strength but with the same
goals...different paths
TizSissy00: I agree Troimille
Troimille: I don't see why anybody needs to have any
strengths for me to
appreciate them-- I love my
BriteFire: or you can still accept that no one is
higher or lower regardless
of what
Troimille: cats, and they are utterly useless!
TizSissy00: an alcoholic shows strength when they ask
me for recovery
TizSissy00: no they aren't :)
BriteFire: strengths they may or may not exhibit
Troimille: TizSissy00, actually, you're right!
TizSissy00: they make you happy--therefore they have that strength
Troimille: Ok, shall I continue?
TizSissy00: thank you Troimille but I already knew my
philosophy is the best
TizSissy00: :)
Troimille: Do you know that if we get used to opening
up our sensibilities in
this way, we can begin
Troimille: to distinguish what we truly *feel* from
what we have been calling
"our feelings".
BriteFire: Tiz...what about
the alcoholic that doesn't ask for help?
TizSissy00: oh definitely
RosieF6834: please
Troimille: What we actually feel are always just
flavors and intensities of
energy, with no
Troimille: implications - no pain, no blame, no
requirements on anybody,
TizSissy00: I would try to steer them towards that goal
Troimille: any more than the fact that, if it rains,
we get wet unless we
remembered our umbrella
BriteFire: but can you accept them just the same even
if they don't go the
way you suggest?
TizSissy00: but even an alcoholic who doesn't want help may labor each day to
put food on the table
SoulMan911: you have to ...Brite
Troimille: Ok, please let me finish this paragraph,
and then we'll break
again for discussion, ok?
Troimille: (of course there are many who take
pleasure in incessant grumbling
about "how their day
Troimille: was ruined.")
Troimille: Can you see that what we have been calling
"my feelings" are
complete decoys?
Troimille: "Sadness" and "grief"
are then just identification and attachment
to someone or something
Troimille: that no longer seems represented in our
field of view;
Troimille: "anger" is a destructive
indulgence in the intensity of energy
caused by an unexpected
Troimille: event;
Troimille: "happiness" is often a
judgmental comparison to someone else who
didn't happen to
Troimille: come out as well as I did this particular
time,
Troimille: and "unhappiness" is when the
roles are reversed. Even "love" is
a whole system of
Troimille: attachments, requirements, expectations
and feeding off of each
other. What else *could*
Troimille: it be?
Troimille:
TizSissy00: let me digest this
TizSissy00: happiness to me is what I can bring to another's life>Troimille
everyday "life")
TizSissy00: If I can somehow make another's life better, even for a moment, I
am happy
BriteFire: what you suggest about love is often what
people call love...but I
don't see love as being
BriteFire: that at all
TizSissy00: my life is not everyday then
Esnshl4me: can that also be an expectation Tiz?
Troimille: TizSissy00, that's because you're a
grown-up soul-- I'm talking
about how people seem to
RosieF6834: You have to be able to please yourself and to believe in yourself
first
Troimille: live in their unconsciousness.
TizSissy00: yes my soul is mature
TizSissy00: everyday I expect to change someone's life and my own
Troimille: RosieF6834, that is true
psychologically-- I intend to prove that
all that about the
Troimille: "self" can be disposed
of.
TizSissy00: That is what makes life so exciting
TizSissy00: I believe in myself
RosieF6834: If you are going around trying to please everyone else, before
you actually know who you are
BriteFire: Rosie....depends on the motivation to
please
TizSissy00: I know who I am Rosie and I do love myself, in fact I really like
me.
RosieF6834: Then are you totally fulfilling your inner needs?
TizSissy00: I hope that doesn't sound self-centered
Troimille: For myself, it's always been an endless
struggle to believe in
"myself", but I've found out
Troimille: that this is unnecessary, and always seems
to get in the way of
real love.
BriteFire: most "pleasers" are really
manipulators...
BriteFire: but some do this unselfishly
TizSissy00: I am a social worker therefore maybe most think I am pleaser
TizSissy00: I see myself as making a difference in this world.
Troimille: I guess the distinction I'm making is that
we can make a whole new
level of love that
Troimille: doesn't have ME in it.
RosieF6834: fulfilling anyone else's because if you are not appreciating you
then how can anyone else?
RosieF6834: Yes..... Troimille it needs to be an
"us" in oneness
Tanajtras: Very well put Barry
Troimille: These ideas are all what we've glommed
onto, I find. There is not
even an "us"
Tanajtras: It is about the other
BriteFire: Rosie...many find a great deal of joy in
giving unselfishly...this
is not being a "pleaser"
Troimille: For me, it is about the Other.
Troimille: What would it be to have all my energy on
what *is*, and not on
"How I (Al Franken) am
TizSissy00: yes Barry the "other"
Troimille: doing?
RosieF6834: :) And I apologize I have a dinosaur puter
so it is slow to
come out with what I am saying
BriteFire: within the One...there is no other
Troimille: (I'm not really Al Franken)
DIPEJI: Hello, my name is Dipeji. Hope it not too
late to join your
discussion
BriteFire: no...Barry is really Dr. Demento...LOL
Troimille: RosieF6834, mine is state of the art, and
it's stuck in tar
tonight.
Troimille: DIPEJI, you are welcome, and it is being
logged for your later
convenience.
RosieF6834: LOL :)
Troimille: See what I mean about bringing attention
all the way off
ourselves? What would we find
Troimille: with NO attention on ME?
TizSissy00: the good and love in others
DIPEJI: Forgive me for coming in the middle of things but I am eager to
explore the subject of Tantra
Troimille: ... and plenty of attention on my state?
Troimille: TizSissy00, for sure!
TizSissy00: perhaps by bringing attention off ourselves and focusing on
others we can truly find the
TizSissy00: real us.......
RosieF6834: Then they would bring attention upon you anyway
.... you have
justified your heart to the
Troimille: In the school I came from (Gurdjieff), this difference would be
called External vs Internal
Troimille: considering. In don
Juan's parlance, it would be "dropping
self-importance"
Troimille: Because of technical problems earlier,
we're running late, so
allow me to continue with the
Troimille: prepared material...
Troimille: Can we really get everything we wish for
if we drop all those
requirements and become
Troimille: power?
Troimille: Can we go into relationships with
ourselves, with each other and
with the Divine Essence
Troimille: which are far beyond, and far more
fulfilling, than these old,
"comfy" habits which have
Troimille: worn out so long ago?
Troimille: What would we have to give up in order to
make room for the
rawness, the empathy and
Troimille: the exquisite union with the Life Force
Troimille: that comes from dropping all the
"protective armor" that we've
accumulated, in the form of
Troimille: "reasons", "beliefs",
"justice", "honor", "integrity", "free
will", "self-love" and
Troimille: "righteousness"?
Troimille: How would it change our lives to be that
present, grateful,
joyful, receptive and light?
Troimille: What have you always wished for, as a
child?
Troimille:
Freud...you have been directly
TinyTim039: quoting them for 1/2 hour...: )
interesting
TinyTim039: HOUR!
TinyTim039: u are VERY well read...: )
Troimille: TinyTim039, amazing! I never actually read
any of those people.
BriteFire: Tim....guess there is nothing new under
the sun eh?
TinyTim039: puhleeseeee! lol
TizSissy00: We cannot have power over only power with.
Troimille: TinyTim039, it's true!
TinyTim039: no, a VERY refreshing commentary...: )
TizSissy00: I recognize the Voltaire and Freud
Troimille: TizSissy00, that's for sure! My bliss is for
YOU to be fulfilled.
TizSissy00: thank you Barry
TinyTim039: oh, I believe u, truth is truth , not
exclusive property...: )
Troimille: Actually, my greatest bliss is to nurture
the expression of the
Divine throughout
Troimille: the worlds.
TizSissy00: you have
TizSissy00: This has been a very good nite here...I
am usually too busy to
come in..but I feel good
that
TizSissy00: I did tonight.
Troimille: Thanks. Do you come away with something
actually new for you?
TizSissy00: a reinforcement really
TizSissy00: of my beliefs
Troimille: We're going to build on this material over
the coming biweekly
sessions.
TizSissy00: thank you all :)
TizSissy00: I will be here Barry
Troimille: Any other comments, questions?
TinyTim039: "bless us everyone"....TT : )
BriteFire: LOL Tim
TinyTim039: : )
TizSissy00: we are all blessed
Tanajtras: Thanks for allowing yourself to share your
experience Barry
Troimille: Let me give you all an exercise then, to
try over the next 2
weeks...
Troimille: It's to go around *Tasting* your world, as
if you were a brand-new
organism on the earth.
BriteFire: oooo....that
sounds like fun...
Troimille: ... and see what you notice that you
couldn't have as a "person"
Alisnntrnt: thank you Barry, for another great talk
:) and to all of you who
could be here to share
Troimille: Well, that's all I have for this week...
open for discussion.
Esnshl4me: Great presentation Barry. Thanks!
BriteFire: thanks Barry
Troimille: Thank you all, especially for your
patience with my technical
troubles earlier.
TizSissy00: I enjoyed tonight Barry thank you
SoulMan911: thank you Troi..
Troimille: You're entirely and completely welcome.
Alisnntrnt: we will have an open discussion next time
followed by Barry the
week after
Troimille: I can't wait to see what all our
"organisms" come up with...
Alisnntrnt: hope you all can be here :)
Tanajtras: G'nite ;~)
TizSissy00: bye
SoulMan911: GOOD
BriteFire: I'll be here
Troimille: Ok, then-- sweet dreams to you all.
BriteFire: Namaste' Y'all!!!
Alisnntrnt: nite all, log
closing. Namaste'
TinyTim039: peace out
Alisnntrnt: feel free to stay and chat, or go to
Special Interests-Tantra