Awakening in God-Consciousness, class #5

© 2001, Barry M Klein, Los Angeles

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 17] 5/10/2001 07:58 PM

HOST LFST RB3000: Good evening, dear friends :)

HOST LFST MikeB: Topic is .. *Awakening*in*God*Consciousness*:

HOST LFST MikeB: How we cultivate negativity and pain, and how we

HOST LFST MikeB: can redirect those energies into ecstatic awareness.

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 19] 5/10/2001 08:00 PM

HOST LFST RB3000: Tonight: Fifth Class of *Awakening*in*God*Consciousness*

HOST LFST RB3000: Last week we discussed Self-Awareness -- using the disciplines of self-study to

HOST LFST RB3000: defeat the ego and to create the Platform of intent. If you missed our earlier

HOST LFST RB3000: discussions on spiritual and mystical practices, I invite you to read the

HOST LFST RB3000: logs of our earlier sessions-- just email me for the links.

HOST LFST RB3000: Before we start, I should mention where the subject material of this class

HOST LFST RB3000: comes from. On one level, it is all my own take on 50 years of studying

HOST LFST RB3000: spirituality, mysticism and esoteric knowledge and practices.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: The sources include Gurdjieff, don Juan, Native medicine practices, lucid

HOST LFST RB3000: dreaming practices, various meditational schools including Zen and

HOST LFST RB3000: Tibetan Buddhism, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Jungian-Gestalt and

HOST LFST RB3000: Human Potential psychotherapies, Seth-type channeling, various kinds of

HOST LFST RB3000: tantra and ecstatic mediumship and shamanship, and the discoveries of

HOST LFST RB3000: both modern physics and ancient mysteries.

Wolfrun312: intent -- is'nt that ego?

HOST LFST RB3000: Wolfrun, I'm using intent as the Will of the whole being that we are, rather

HOST LFST RB3000: than the little wishes of the ego.

HOST LFST RB3000: I didn't just read the books -- I enrolled in each of these disciplines for

HOST LFST RB3000: anywhere from one to 12 years, and have been doing the practices the

HOST LFST RB3000: whole time.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: It really does take doing daily practices to be able to assimilate this kind of

HOST LFST RB3000: material, so please read the earlier logs of our class (see the links at the

HOST LFST RB3000: top of this email) and try them out.

HOST LFST RB3000: Are there any questions or comments at this point, before we begin?

Wolfrun312: all is discipline or chaos

HOST LFST RB3000: The featured subject for tonight is "How we cultivate negativity and pain, and

HOST LFST RB3000: how we can redirect those energies into ecstatic awareness."

HOST LFST RB3000: The first thing we should look at is our inner programming. This is what we

HOST LFST RB3000: usually have been calling the "subconscious" and it is the collection of

HOST LFST RB3000: suppressed desires, decisions and reactions that runs everything we do, or

HOST LFST RB3000: try to do, or sabotages what we do.

HOST LFST RB3000: We have so many reactions and attitudes programmed in our

HOST LFST RB3000: subconscious that we are largely automatons carrying them out,

HOST LFST RB3000: constantly and unconsciously, justifying and editing everything so it

HOST LFST RB3000: conforms to the programs. It makes us dull, slow, unreliable "sinners."

HOST LFST RB3000: Anything "evil" that anyone does "seemed like a good idea at the time" to the perpetrator.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: And the perpetrator is ourselves, because it is we who will die for the

HOST LFST RB3000: "honor" of our self-image, our programming. An ignoble death in abject

HOST LFST RB3000: ignorance, because we can never know ourselves until we have obtained

HOST LFST RB3000: help in shutting down these programs. Anyone who has gone through a 12-step program knows what I mean by this.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: So now, how did all these programmed reactions get "into our

HOST LFST RB3000: subconscious"? My teachers guided us to observe that each of these so-called subconscious drivers was installed by *conscious*, but tiny,

HOST LFST RB3000: decisions that we have made at each step of the way, even before we had learned to speak.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: As we recover our early memories, we find that, at every difficulty or fear,

HOST LFST RB3000: we *decided* that "I can't let them do that to {me|mommy|brother|etc}

HOST LFST RB3000: any more" or "I can't stand this" or "I'll get even with you" or "I don't

HOST LFST RB3000: deserve to live." And really thousands of these, but all along the same

HOST LFST RB3000: lines. They build up our psychotic self-image, and it sets like concrete.

HOST LFST RB3000: That is our "ego", and it is permanent and blind. The only way we can

HOST LFST RB3000: know ourselves is to observe other people's reactions and

HOST LFST RB3000: communications to us, somehow allowing for the same thing going on in them.

HOST LFST RB3000: This is accomplished by turning off the self-justification apparatus that

HOST LFST RB3000: keeps us locked into our self-concept, which can even allow us to kill and

HOST LFST RB3000: brutalize our fellow humans, and destroy ourselves.

HOST LFST RB3000: This justification is always going on as a sort of "instant editor of history" --

HOST LFST RB3000: it takes whatever happens and rewrites it to prove our own prejudices,

HOST LFST RB3000: perfect every time. :)

HOST LFST RB3000: If something artificially halts this editing apparatus, like a near-death

HOST LFST RB3000: experience, the Miraculous Nature of Existence may appear for a moment.

HOST LFST RB3000: But within moments, we can make even that ordinary, part of our lock-set.

HOST LFST RB3000: So if we even can witness a moment of the infinite super-natural, we

HOST LFST RB3000: quickly explain it down into yet another prejudice over which we can

HOST LFST RB3000: perpetrate more humiliations and wars with others -- our Moments turn

HOST LFST RB3000: into opinions and dogma, abominations of their true, primordial existence.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: The chief means by which this apparatus keeps us locked in enslavement

HOST LFST RB3000: is by our constant inner conversation, in which each of the above-mentioned decisions is run like an endless tape-loop, so we are always

HOST LFST RB3000: ready with "But this is how I *feel*" or "These are my beliefs" or "This is an obvious fact."

HOST LFST RB3000: And all they are is entirely uncontemplated prejudices, mechanisms for

HOST LFST RB3000: pain and degradation and self-defeat.

HOST LFST RB3000: We have fed them with our self-pity until they have become hairy

HOST LFST RB3000: monsters, and no promise or apology that we make under their extortion

HOST LFST RB3000: can possibly have meaning, no "conscious" decision that we make can

HOST LFST RB3000: have any power in the face of the infantile horrors that always get their

HOST LFST RB3000: way by virtue of being uncontemplated and unchecked.

HOST LFST RB3000: ******* ALL RIGHT, friends. The floor is open for your questions or

HOST LFST RB3000: comments about the enslavement to the subconscious, and what the

HOST LFST RB3000: subconscious really is. Go right ahead now please

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 15] 5/10/2001 08:15 PM

Wolfrun312: are u speaking of the will?

HOST LFST RB3000: Wolfrun, that's in there -- hand on one more minute ...

Wolfrun312: u sound like a snake oil salesman

HOST LFST RB3000: Wolfrun, yeah, and it gets worse :)

Dreaminco1: how does one "deprogram" themselves then?

Dreaminco1: HOW do you free yourself from them??

RochelleDo: This would be conditioning from the cradle?

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, we'll get into HOW a lot more -- at this point, let's talk about

HOST LFST RB3000: whether any of this seems to apply to each of us...

HOST LFST RB3000: RochelleDo, yes from birth-- I'm not sure about pre-natal :)

ViolaregardeM: question...do you make a distinction between "unconscious" and subconcious..

HOST LFST RB3000: ViolaregardeM, sure ...

Dreaminco1: I feel like you just told the whole room how I think and feel and we have never even met 3000

Spirit 19: Dreaminco... it's part of being human.. (in my humble opinion)

HOST LFST RB3000: ... basically, I've got the SUBconscious as the repository for all our

HOST LFST RB3000: decisions and "installations", whereas the UNconscious to me is really

HOST LFST RB3000: what is universally CONscious.

Dreaminco1: well it is a part of myself I have been trying years to release

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, these teachings have been studying human inner nature for

HOST LFST RB3000: 1,000s of years-- it has me pegged for sure :)

StellaWolf: I like that, 3k

Dreaminco1: but our parents programmed them into us and theirs into them

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, for sure-- but I'm considering whether it is ourselves who

HOST LFST RB3000: programmed them all...?!

ViolaregardeM: ok...I've thought of the term unconsciousness to describe

ViolaregardeM: that kind of lack of awareness

HOST LFST RB3000: ViolaregardeM, you're right, in the medical sense - this is more Jungian, I suppose. :)

DCizunas: Don't you find that living on the earth plane

DCizunas: sanely requires the same attitude as a

DCizunas: journalist...to take a step back and just observe

DCizunas: what we have seen with no predudice?

Spirit 19: host.. what difference would it make "WHO" programmed us..

HOST LFST RB3000: Spirit, because if it was/is ME, then I can change the programming, eh? :)

RochelleDo: surely it would be merely subliminal from how we were taught to get on in society?

RochelleDo: or even dogma from other training ?

HOST LFST RB3000: RochelleDo, at least, "getting along" is the excuse for loading us up with it ...

ViolaregardeM: that all of us have, to some degree or another :-) perceptive...medical background here.

Dreaminco1: I don't feel I had control over their origin but I can control if they continue

HOST LFST RB3000: ... the word unconscious is used in three very different ways.

Spirit 19: :>)

DLewisSticky: What 3 ways, 3K?

HOST LFST RB3000: ... every culture stabilizes the "tonal" of the child to conform with each its own "reality."

StellaWolf: not sure if you are aware..3k, there is a video discussion called Evolution of Man, with

StellaWolf: David Bohm, a krishna sort of dude and a pyschologist

StellaWolf: they debate the unconscious, subconscious and all that light reading stuff ;)

Spirit 19: Stella.... I have that video

StellaWolf: Spirit, I'm coming over to watch it again :)

Spirit 19: it's with David Bohm, Krishnamurti

Spirit 19: and some other guy

StellaWolf: the other guy had nothing to add to the discussion ::giggling::

Spirit 19: tells ya something that neither of us can remember his name

StellaWolf: 3k, they were pretty Jungian in their descriptions.

HOST LFST RB3000: <-- doesn't know the video that was mentioned -- glad somebody knows

HOST LFST RB3000: about it, but I can't say whether it applies to this class or not. :)

HOST LFST RB3000: DLewisSticky, the 3 ways of the UNconscious: ...

HOST LFST RB3000: ... 1) knocked out cold; 2) everything that "we" (our "scientists") do not "know" as "facts; 3) the real Consciousness that we have lost sight of.

HOST LFST RB3000: It's the 3rd one I refer to in this class.

Dreaminco1: I want to judge my behaviors and reaction and learn from them

Lmb44angel: that is ok

Lmb44angel: discernment

Lmb44angel: there is a difference betwween the two

Dreaminco1: can one be too concerned with these issue too consumed?/

StellaWolf: They refer to the Jungian pool of consciousness, is all.

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, yes and no ...

StellaWolf: unconsciousness, rather

Dreaminco1: ok I am listeneing

StellaWolf: words are annoying at times.

HOST LFST RB3000: yes, because we lose the Moment in our obsession, and it takes all our fine

HOST LFST RB3000: energy away, and NO, because it takes everything we've got -- it just has

HOST LFST RB3000: to be disciplined and channeled properly. :)

RochelleDo: So if we are told often that we are stupid, our subconcious really

RochelleDo: believes it even if our conscious knows it wrong?

HOST LFST RB3000: RochelleDo, yes, the reason is that what we have been calling "conscious"

HOST LFST RB3000: is really just a view through a keyhole into a dark closet. :)

Dreaminco1: sounds simple 3k but I have tried for years to deprogram this way of thinking , acting, reacting

Dreaminco1: and pain and insight

Lmb44angel: it takes years of practice

ViolaregardeM: so....if we do not or cannot see, what is the remedy? are you saying that

ViolaregardeM: our experiences become the "mirror"?

HOST LFST RB3000: ... I'm saying that our ordinary "conscious" is very small, partial and

HOST LFST RB3000: disabled -- but there is a Consciousness of the Whole, in what we have

HOST LFST RB3000: been calling the UNconscious. See? :)

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, I've been practicing for five decades, and I am first beginning

HOST LFST RB3000: to have some control and choice :)

DCizunas: 3K, that last phrase explains a lot!!

HOST LFST RB3000: ViolaregardeM, exactly -- well put :)

Dreaminco1: well I may not last that long

Lmb44angel: yes you can

Lmb44angel: endure

Lmb44angel: plant your own garden

DCizunas: Dreamin, you can continue it on another realm :)

Dreaminco1: my endurance is reaching its end , I hate feeling this way

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, well, I had (have?) a lot of psychosis to work through -- it

HOST LFST RB3000: slowed me down, but it also made a lot possible. :)

RealmLady: is the goal though to deal with "life" in our individual consciousness..or not?

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 20] 5/10/2001 08:30 PM

Dreaminco1: such as?? 3k

Lmb44angel: i can relate Dreamico

Lmb44angel: but YOU CAN

Lmb44angel: believe me

Lmb44angel: believe in this room

DLewisSticky: Would we create more than we are capable of handling?

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, that's very good -- we really do have to get to the end of our

HOST LFST RB3000: rope to take another direction -- that's what it takes to break the societal

HOST LFST RB3000: program, see?

SongofAncients: Realm...I would think so. At the individual's pace and way.

Dreaminco1: Obession is not an easily handled emotion

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, yes, "life" as the mirror. :)

Lmb44angel: yes exactly HOST LFST

RealmLady: I do agree Dream...otherwise why would we have individual consciousnesses.....

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, of course not, but it takes full-out obsession to know our

HOST LFST RB3000: ultimate possibilities, for sure!

Dreaminco1: becoming obessed with situations you can't control

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, oh -- do we indeed HAVE induhvidual consciousness??? :)

SongofAncients: Oh you bet...when you tell me about it, I'll fill ya in on somethings that have come up.

RealmLady: Just because society tells us what is "socially acceptable" does that mean it's the only way

RealmLady: I don't think so......

SongofAncients: Realm.....or do we assume what society tells us is acceptable?

SongofAncients: 3000, can you show that we do not have individual consciousness?

RealmLady: Society isn't so wonderful.....so I wouldn't necessarily trust it....*s*

Lmb44angel: but i believe we can go around society

Lmb44angel: at times it is a challenge tho!!!!!

SongofAncients: ::chuckle:: Realm... I've always trusted myself more than a myth, too.

Sconce88: i am not individually conscious of anything

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, yes, I can *show* under the right circumstances (which is

HOST LFST RB3000: exactly what I intend to set up with these classes and workshops), but not

HOST LFST RB3000: "prove"....

StellaWolf: 'society' is such an abstract thing.

RochelleDo: Realm, we may not trust it now that we are older and wiser but

DCizunas: Song, if we do not have group consciousness, how

RochelleDo: as children we were expected to it seems.

DCizunas: do you explain ESP and channeling?

SongofAncients: 3000, the "right" circumstances meaning your chosen circumstances.

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, what society programs us to believe is "acceptable" just

HOST LFST RB3000: fine, as long as we are willing to die like dogs. :)

SongofAncients: DC....I'm not saying that we cannot communicate and share a connection with All...

RealmLady: Children should be seen and not heard is what I grew up with...

SongofAncients: but we do have the ability to see as an individual.

SongofAncients: 3000, "Society" is a myth. It programs no one that doesn't choose to be a wanton follower.

DCizunas: Song, true...like our little facet of a gem

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, meaning really, to set up so that a group of people all

HOST LFST RB3000: experience the same Oneness, the same Miraculous.

SongofAncients: We, as individuals through our insecurities decide what "society" is and wants.

Dreaminco1: untrue Song , I can't belive that

RealmLady: very true song....

SongofAncients: DC, exactly.

SongofAncients: 3000,.......that is entirely possible, yes...but to discredit the

SongofAncients: contribution of the individual is to break down the whole of

SongofAncients: the All.

ViolaregardeM: I disagree...on the basis that many of our "choices" are done before

ViolaregardeM: we reach the age of reason...

SongofAncients: Dream...and I respect that. I see and have experienced it my

SongofAncients: way....through my experiences, not yours.

OnlineHost: JanleeStew has entered the room.

Dreaminco1: why would anyone choose to be unhappy and out of control??

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, we do keep trying to change society, and it eventually

HOST LFST RB3000: "changes", but I keep finding that I get the whole Reality to change if I

HOST LFST RB3000: change my SELF :)

DCizunas: Hey, like the musketeers...one for all and all

DCizunas: for one :)

StellaWolf: the individual is the all and the all is the individual

RealmLady: don't you think RB3K....that society itself creates negativity???

SongofAncients: Dream..perhaps they haven't reached a point of understanding we can turn that around.

RealmLady: I do....

SongofAncients: Many give up before taking that responsibility on

SongofAncients: themselves....it's easier to blame that mythical Society.

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, I do not discredit the individual per se, just putting

HOST LFST RB3000: everything into a context ...

RealmLady: if it didn't there wouldn't be any bad news....

StellaWolf: 3k, we are the dreamers of the dream that can dream? ::giggling::

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, no, it is our own "ego" (the subconscious lock-set) that tells

HOST LFST RB3000: us what is "negative", all the time :)

RealmLady: uh huh.....ok

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, right-- blaming is just part of the ego lock-up, right?

SongofAncients: 3000, not Ego......insecurity.

SongofAncients: Insecurity is only one aspect of the individual that Ego helps us recognize.

RealmLady: Personally I believe it is all in our individual perspective

Dreaminco1: I blame myself fo rmy own mistakes , but no one has answered my ???

SongofAncients: Confidence and pride in oneself is another.

DCizunas: Song, how many times have you heard the dreaded

StellaWolf: what question, Dream?

SongofAncients: Realm.....MUCH agreed.

DCizunas: opinion of "they" as in "they say"?

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, insecurity is also in ego -- outside of ego, in our higher

HOST LFST RB3000: Self, there is only wonderment, I find. :)

DLewisSticky: blame= acknowledgment of creation?

Dreaminco1: HOW DO WE CHANGE

SongofAncients: DC...all my life, but I don't worry too much about a "they" that is a phantasm.

RealmLady: I myself decide what is right or wrong for me...i don't much care what society thinks

StellaWolf: by choosing to, Dream :)

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, yes, all subective, right?

SongofAncients: 3000....that's what I just said.....insecurity is IN Ego...but it is Not Ego.

DCizunas: Song, exactly...I felt the same way

HOST LFST RB3000: DLewisSticky, blame = assigning source to not-self. :)

RealmLady: right RB3K

SongofAncients: Realm...amen. And you are the stronger individual for it.....and

SongofAncients: capable of contributing more to the All.

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, we are getting to that -- I just didn't want to stop this great conversation. :)

Dreaminco1: I have chosen to and worked many years even destored my children home life to change

Sconce88: the unknown, that we try so hard to explain,is better believed.

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, how are you defining ego then?

SongofAncients: Sconce....if we listen closer to our inner Self....we'd already

SongofAncients: know, and have less need of explanations.

Sconce88: yes, song

SongofAncients: 3000, I define Ego as many before me have.......that aspect

SongofAncients: of human existence that lets us experience and define as

SongofAncients: individuals while keeping connection to the All.

DCizunas: <~~~~Don't like the word believe, prefer know

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, change is very very very quiet -- destroys nothing but self-image, need to blame anyone, makes us compassionate and loving and

HOST LFST RB3000: humble :)

SongofAncients: Ego simply is. Not positive nor negative....

HOST LFST RB3000: DCizunas, sure, but Know is Know, and "believe" is take someone's word for it, no?

SongofAncients: It's the eye that shows us our individuality. How we deal

SongofAncients: with that individuality is the insecurity or not.

DLewisSticky: Amazing how much your life changes when you are compassionate to YOURSELF.

SongofAncients: DL, very true.

DCizunas: 3K, exactly...I leave it up to myself, either I

DCizunas: know or don't know...never leave it to belief

HOST LFST RB3000: SongofAncients, ok, I'm using ego, for the purposes of this class, to mean

HOST LFST RB3000: the artifice that we programmed up in response to our societal and

HOST LFST RB3000: individual experience and outlook.

Sconce88: to achieve world peace, there must be disarmament of the inner self, -- Dalai Lama

SongofAncients: 3000.....a mask.

HOST LFST RB3000: VERY GOOD COMMENTS, EVERYBODY.... Now let us venture forth into our

HOST LFST RB3000: next segment of the class ................................................

HOST LFST RB3000: In esoteric teachings, they sometimes describe our ordinary situation as

HOST LFST RB3000: that of a train passenger stuck on the rear platform of the caboose, so that

HOST LFST RB3000: all we can know of the world is how it affected me, what we are "victims"

HOST LFST RB3000: of --

HOST LFST RB3000: if it *happens* that I have some faith or love, if it *happens* that I have

HOST LFST RB3000: some "good luck" or some "bad luck", whatever advantages or

HOST LFST RB3000: disadvantages. This is how we know our whole world (those of us in

HOST LFST RB3000: "Western civilization", anyway) -- everything happens mechanically,

HOST LFST RB3000: including "evolution", including "consciousness."

SongofAncients: Ah, well....my honey's home. Time to fly....Blessings All :)

HOST LFST RB3000: But then there are a few who ride on the front of the first engine of the

HOST LFST RB3000: train -- they see everything that's coming down the track toward them. To

HOST LFST RB3000: us they seem to have special powers and senses, because they are

HOST LFST RB3000: prepared to meet everything that life can throw at them, they are

HOST LFST RB3000: prepared to meet their Death, they are prepared to sacrifice their own

HOST LFST RB3000: lives for others, with no self-pity or grumbling or blame at all.

HOST LFST RB3000: Such people are called *seers* or *warriors* or *men of Knowledge*,

HOST LFST RB3000: *saints* or *sorcerers* because they have Will, courage, discipline,

HOST LFST RB3000: discernment and faith; one cannot lie to them or make them victims of

HOST LFST RB3000: deceit or even of accident.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 20] 5/10/2001 08:45 PM

HOST LFST RB3000: This is because they have turned off the editing apparatus -- they have no

HOST LFST RB3000: internal conversation and thus have no enemies and no accidents. They

HOST LFST RB3000: have "deliberants" if we want to coin the phrase. The other reason is that

HOST LFST RB3000: they have clarified and unified their Consciousness.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: People like this cannot be dragged around by our opinions of them, or by

HOST LFST RB3000: their history, or by "evil" people or by catastrophes; they can be killed, but

HOST LFST RB3000: they don't die like we do.

HOST LFST RB3000: As don Juan puts it, "Death waits for the warrior to complete his final

HOST LFST RB3000: dance, his final gesture to Life." And that moment is enough time for the

HOST LFST RB3000: whole world to change, even to exist.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: Seers literally change reality by their *proper insistence*, which is an

HOST LFST RB3000: actual law that bends the continuum and shifts the overlap gradients of

HOST LFST RB3000: the parallels. In this way, if something wasn't true (or even *possible*) in

HOST LFST RB3000: one field, it has already happened *perfectly* in another.

Sconce88: these seers are gridless and faceless, no personal perception or concrete reality

HOST LFST RB3000: The seer declares the new reality with the whole of his/her Being, and

HOST LFST RB3000: thereby *accesses* that reality, sort of like pulling a rubber tablecloth

HOST LFST RB3000: around until the serving bowl that we want is in front of us.

HOST LFST RB3000: This is exactly what is meant by "prayer" in esoteric religion -- the

HOST LFST RB3000: declaration and assumption of a particular reality -- the alignment of Law,

HOST LFST RB3000: the immediacy of its perception in the exact Moment of possibility.

HOST LFST RB3000: What has come down to us as "witchcraft", voudou, Santeria and other

HOST LFST RB3000: practices of incantations, curses, amulets and spirit manipulation are

HOST LFST RB3000: basically degradations of this Knowledge.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: The Moment in which the world changes reality is the moment in which it

HOST LFST RB3000: *stops*, and that moment is the exact one in which I-am-present-right-

HOST LFST RB3000: exactly-here-now-with-no-story-whatsoever, naked, nothing, raw,

HOST LFST RB3000: innocent and fierce with life-force.

HOST LFST RB3000: .

HOST LFST RB3000: The seer is ruthless, relentless, dispassionate, and immune to the results

HOST LFST RB3000: of however everything turns out. In this way, s/he is the one who can

HOST LFST RB3000: care and heal and take utter responsibility for the reality.

HOST LFST RB3000: ******* ALL RIGHT, friends. The floor is open for your questions or

HOST LFST RB3000: comments about the experience of reality with no prejudices. Go right

HOST LFST RB3000: ahead now please ............................

RealmLady: first off...I don't believe one must be a seer or such to not have a victim mentality

Dreaminco1: It can be very painful to live in the NOW

Sconce88: i like what you said, but a small minded elf is experiencing a legitimate reality too

ViolaregardeM: would you explain the word "deliberate?"

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, I am positing that, if we are in complete self-authority,

HOST LFST RB3000: shameless, blameless and painless, we ARE Seers by def. No? :)

Dreaminco1: it means you must face the faults and defects continually

RealmLady: for I myself have never been a victim of anything.....I'm a survivor....

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, could you say more about that please?

Sconce88: maybe we all play the roles of everyone, to round out our existence

ViolaregardeM: yes...and not even see them as "faults" or "defects" per se?

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, it means that you do not REGARD anything as a "fault" or a "defect". :)

RealmLady: hmmmm....i'm not a seer and I feel no guilt....no shame...and i believe everything happens

RealmLady: for a reason.....

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, I have achieved and witnessed miracles by *giving up* being a "survivor". :)

RealmLady: that good and bad are different aspect of the same spectrum......

Sconce88: we make a reason out of things that happen, REALM

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, you might be right about that. :)

Dreaminco1: sorry rb3000 I don't view that as realistic

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, right -- exactly-- you have your "facts" and your "reality"--

HOST LFST RB3000: and I claim that these are all pain-and-blame programs. :)

ShimmyCocaBop: claim and blame kewl

Sconce88: PERCEPTION IS AN OPEN book, you fill the pages

Dreaminco1: so how does one let go when they don't have years of strength left

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, do you see? We all have our "but this" and "but that" to keep

HOST LFST RB3000: us on the rat-wheel.

Dreaminco1: NOT I , I jumpmed off of that years ago

HOST LFST RB3000: Dreaminco, I am dying myself -- I work as if I have only six months left to

HOST LFST RB3000: live-- but it could be tomorrow, or tonight-- it gives me an edge, do you see?

Dreaminco1: NO ,

Sconce88: jim morrison was a type of sear who broke off, but how useful is the life we lead when it happens

RealmLady: RB3K....but aren't we all?.....tomorrow is never guaranteed

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, Morrison worked to break the mould, but he was still within it when

HOST LFST RB3000: he died-- this work is the opposite of self-destruction, yet it foregoes

HOST LFST RB3000: "survival" for Life.

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, actually, tomorrow IS guaranteed to be the same as today,

HOST LFST RB3000: because I am doing the same today as I did yesterday, and so on ...

Marialuisatony: The father in me from the silence of my heart is the answer to all my questions

Sconce88: a sentence can throw a lasso around heaven, but the soul must fill the void

HOST LFST RB3000: Marialuisatony, that's very nice, I guess-- does it relate to this class? :)

RealmLady: we have an idea of what may happen tomorrow.....but it is not guaranteed to happen that way

BConWise: there is no guarantee we will be alive tomorrow

Sconce88: dogma worship as we slowly discover ourselves, God is slowly formed

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 21] 5/10/2001 09:00 PM

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, that sounds interesting, but I may have missed the first half of what you said...

LightSoulTouch: So...are we into making choices about pain or ectasy?

MetraDrakar: yeah Light ) you have a choice

Sconce88: i was going to say that the worship of dogma leads to nothing

MetraDrakar: that is being conscioous aware

LightSoulTouch: But aren't both necessary elements of the whole?

LourdMoon: (reply) I can wait, have proved to be a patient man

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, right-- we have to both USE and BREAK obsession, somehow.

MetraDrakar: pain Light? pain is not the original us..you..me...

HOST LFST RB3000: LightSoulTouch, pain is not necessary -- the energy can always be taken

HOST LFST RB3000: ecstatically or even just humbly. :)

Sconce88: the miniature world of a child is at one with the truth, as we grow older, we become

RealmLady: true Host

Sconce88: religious

MetraDrakar: it is the though that goes with the feel;ing..what you label it as

MetraDrakar: consciously

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, sure, but as you said, the child's is *miniature*.

OnlineHost: JLook91968 has entered the room.

DCizunas: 3K, how so pain...know how to do anger etc....but

DCizunas: how pain?

LightSoulTouch: Bi-polar of sorts....dichotomy

RealmLady: is seers also another word for Masters??

MetraDrakar: so when Kryon says stop thinking ) in Kryon ' s book well )

LightSoulTouch: In the larger sense, though, dont the collective "we" have to "know" one to "know" the other

Sconce88: maybe a small mind encompases all truth, thoughts produce religion.

BConWise: blue...a half hour

MetraDrakar: again choice Light...that is being in 3rd dimension LOL

HOST LFST RB3000: VERY GOOD COMMENTS, EVERYBODY.... Now let us venture forth into our

HOST LFST RB3000: next segment of the class ................................................

HOST LFST RB3000: I think it must be clear that the seers that I described are people like

HOST LFST RB3000: Gandhi, St. Francis the Beloved, John the Baptist, Moses the law-giver,

HOST LFST RB3000: Gautama the Buddha, Mohamed the Prophet and Jesus the Christ.

HOST LFST RB3000: ................................................

HOST LFST RB3000: With the spiritual power that they have, they change history by merely

HOST LFST RB3000: skipping a meal, or something equally humble. Somehow their spiritual

HOST LFST RB3000: immensity is grounded in humility and service.

HOST LFST RB3000: With the spiritual power that they have, they change history by merely

HOST LFST RB3000: skipping a meal, or something equally humble. Somehow their spiritual

HOST LFST RB3000: immensity is grounded in humility and service.

HOST LFST RB3000: So now, by what arrogance and heresy will I attempt to place our own

HOST LFST RB3000: worthless selves in such illustrious company? I will do this by examining

HOST LFST RB3000: the difference between us and them, as I have just been doing, and by

HOST LFST RB3000: suggesting a line of endeavor.

HOST LFST RB3000: The Seers and Saints derive their power from holding an *edge of silence*-

HOST LFST RB3000: - they have hammered their ego (or most likely, had someone ruthless

HOST LFST RB3000: and relentless to do this for them) until its pathetic agendae no longer run them.

HOST LFST RB3000: But now they are faced with the horror of themselves and of the

HOST LFST RB3000: consequences of all their actions, and even of their very thoughts and words.

HOST LFST RB3000: The discipline of the warrior allows them to catch this horror as an *edge*.

HOST LFST RB3000: Now it is not some "feeling" or pathetic excuse for an "emotion";

HOST LFST RB3000: instead it is a brilliant, merciless edge of a simitar, that slices open a slit in

HOST LFST RB3000: the fabric of reality, and it is the unbearable heat of unedited,

HOST LFST RB3000: unadulterated *impulse* -- cultivated madness! -- which pushes them

HOST LFST RB3000: through that slit into unimaginable possibilities.

HOST LFST RB3000: Do you now see? In the saturated world of the sorcerer of Knowledge,

HOST LFST RB3000: there is no such thing as "anger", "grief", "terror", "love", "jealousy",

HOST LFST RB3000: "yearning" or "betrayal" -- there is only the raw energies of each of these

HOST LFST RB3000: flavors of Life-force.

HOST LFST RB3000: The silent spirit of the warrior plucks these as if out of the air, like a Xiao-Lin priest, and so everything propels him into the "somersault into the inconceivable."

HOST LFST RB3000: For ordinary people, those of us who are "victims" of everything, the

HOST LFST RB3000: slightest attempt to do such things produces madness, violence, paranoia

HOST LFST RB3000: and disaster.

HOST LFST RB3000: It is only the *nothingness* (egolessness) and relentless discipline of the

HOST LFST RB3000: warrior-saint that allows them to *ride the dragon* -- all the power that

HOST LFST RB3000: was locked into the subconscious -- into all our fabled possibilities,

HOST LFST RB3000: everything that has been predicted and recorded by scripture and

HOST LFST RB3000: mythology.

HOST LFST RB3000: ******* ALL RIGHT, friends. That concludes what I wished to present to

HOST LFST RB3000: you tonight for your examination. The floor is open for your questions or

HOST LFST RB3000: comments about any of the material in tonight's class. Remember please -

HOST LFST RB3000: - we are still in classroom protocol. Go right ahead now please

HOST LFST RB3000: ............................

Galaxon: so indside of the raw energy called love, all of the

Galaxon: other emotions are stores as holographs?

RealmLady: Host.....the majority of those people did everything out of Love.it is what made them true masters

MetraDrakar: welll RB that is pretty close in conscousness and my wisdom, knowledge of it

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, did I answer your question in there?

Sconce88: to harbor the next thought on the way to contradiction is wise

MetraDrakar: although the masters are not in pain ..or thoughts as others may have to say

RealmLady: um.....i think so.....

Galaxon: 3k inside the raw energy we might call love, all the

Galaxon: other emotions exist like in a holograph?

MetraDrakar: hee,hee as Sananda shares ) Love is all there Is )

HOST LFST RB3000: Galaxon, not in what we CALL "love", but in what love IS, see?

Sconce88: reality is only an agreed upon illusion

Galaxon: well, love is just a label...love existed before we ever put a name to it

HOST LFST RB3000: Marialuisatony, yes, we are near the end of it ...

Sconce88: all the worlds of men and only one earth

StellaWolf: 3k, where you were talking about ripping open the fabric, where you touching upon the

Theban2000: Only experiencing Love can to know what it is... the rest is only intellect.

StellaWolf: responsibility of awareness?>

MetraDrakar: RB simply enough ) change your thought to that energy )

MetraDrakar: release it ...transcend it )

MetraDrakar: is another )

HOST LFST RB3000: StellaWolf, yes, but here we are taking "responsibility" in a new way, do you see?

MetraDrakar: or have no thought )

Sconce88: to experience love is an emotion, not knowledge

HOST LFST RB3000: MetraDrakar, it does sound so simple -- have you achieved it? :)

StellaWolf: Nope, hung up on semantics again :) What way do you mean?

Marialuisatony: love is letting go fear

Theban2000: The same with everything else... no matter what we "believe".... the key is to live it.

MetraDrakar: RB yes I have the masters , god, angels have shared many times to me , about my thoughts...e

Sconce88: the truth falls with the rain and is written in the wind

Theban2000: Sconce: You are the Truth...

RochelleDo: So 3k, it would seem perhaps some of us could do with

RochelleDo: reprogramming to get on the right track?

HOST LFST RB3000: Marialuisatony, for the mysticism that I am expounding, we take all that

HOST LFST RB3000: "fear" energy and unite with it -- then Love can take its rightful power, but

HOST LFST RB3000: nothing like we "understand" it.

Sconce88: what connection do the insane have that we do not?

HOST LFST RB3000: RochelleDo, depends on who is doing the reprogramming-- everybody and

HOST LFST RB3000: everything has its own agenda, right?

MetraDrakar: fear is ego talking I share

MetraDrakar: a false one LOL

Theban2000: The connection is that they are "disconnected".

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, the insane can see mixed up glimpses of the other world, but it is from hell.

MetraDrakar: hee,hee no such thing as hell )

HOST LFST RB3000: Theban, I agree with you.

Theban2000: Host: Do you believe in hell?

Sconce88: is it hell, or something you are afraid of?

HOST LFST RB3000: MetraDrakar, sure there is-- we keep creating it for ourselves, no? :)

RochelleDo: Sure we do but if we so choose to reprogram ourselves....let's

RochelleDo: say just from the basic inhibitions we may have accumulated,

RealmLady: "Oneness" is in the sadness and the laughter, in the bitter and the sweet.

RochelleDo: would you suggest maybe affirmations are the way to go?

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 21] 5/10/2001 09:15 PM

RealmLady: There is a divine purpose behind everything and therefore a divine presence in everything

Sconce88: REALM, life is totally random, and we make a purpose out of these events

RealmLady: and...."the Oneness" is in All That Is..and All That Is Not..

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, "therefore"??? We start with our uncontemplated belief, and

HOST LFST RB3000: "logically" prove whatever else we presume. :)

Khiron1771: we are observers for the creator.....the eyes for the whole. no agenda other than to

Sconce88: each person carves themselves out of eternity

Khiron1771: experience ourselves in physical reality, imho

HOST LFST RB3000: Khiron, I agree up to where you assume that there IS some "physical 'reality'"

RealmLady: we are here to experience for the creator.....right on khiron....

LadyHawke12053: we are MORE than physical

MetraDrakar: ahhh diversity of the mind hee,he can perhaps drive one crazy at time " quote by RDB

Theban2000: Until we accept that we are Divine beings... the rest is just food for the mind.

Khiron1771: 3K...good point...:)

HOST LFST RB3000: <-- dislocates shoulder patting self on back :)

BConWise: rb lol

RealmLady: lol

Khiron1771: LOL!!

RealmLady: we are right now in physical reality host....

RealmLady: though reality is an illusion

Sconce88: maybe this is the best and only possible world

RealmLady: I sure hope not Sconce

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, which one is "this" world??????

Sconce88: why?

Theban2000: Sconce: Is that important to you?

BConWise: isn't life what we make of it here on earth?

Sconce88: good point host

RealmLady: I doubt that God only created humans on earth....

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, you're assuming that you "live" in one "world", whereas I claim

HOST LFST RB3000: that we simply program them up to suit our prejudices.

Marialuisatony: the body is the vehicle the soul the experiences and the spirit our divine spark

Sconce88: just food for thought

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, now you're making me hungry :)

RealmLady: The creator has the whole universe to put life in

RochelleDo: Agenda another time, maybe? Still wish to know suggestions for reprogramming.

Khiron1771: ...if you've ever been oob......you no longer doubt that reality is an illusion; or maybe

Sconce88: maybe upon death, it all ends for us

Khiron1771: just one of many possible expressions of existence.

RealmLady: sconce must not be a regular in this room....

MetraDrakar: well Khi perhaps there is a awareness to that illusion?

Sconce88: i am just not afraid to think anything

JacobJG: sconce, there is ZERO chance of that

Theban2000: Realm: We are creation and creator... it's our own responsibility to fulfill our own plan.

Marialuisatony: death is when you wake up life is just a dream

JacobJG: it doesn't end when we die, we're eternal beings

JacobJG: fragments of God

RealmLady: right on Jacob

JacobJG: yes, 2000

RealmLady: this is only one of many lives we've all lived.......

DDreamtime: Realm Ive met Sconce here before and hes very smart and talented

JacobJG: I'm not stating an opinion

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, we do like to think that I am "open-minded" and sophisticated, but

HOST LFST RB3000: I am still just living my mythology.

Sconce88: if you want it to end , it does, i might inhabit a speaker for 500 years

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, are you meaning in some kind of sequence of lifetimes???

HOST LFST RB3000: They aren't in sequence -- they are all simultaneous!

RealmLady: I realize that.....*s*

RealmLady: but i'm only consciously aware of this one right now

JacobJG: we invented "time" so as to separately experience that which happens simultaneously

Theban2000: Good RB3000... There is nothing like a "Perfect Present"... free of time & space.

Sconce88: any heaven within our grasp is just another earth

JacobJG: yes, 2000

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, assuming that your "awareness" is indeed conscious, which it

HOST LFST RB3000: is not, for any of us.

HOST LFST RB3000: ... At least, that is the claim of the lineages that I subscribe to.

RealmLady: i meant my human consciousness Host....

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, just you wait till you see what your Human Consciousness can come up with! :)

Theban2000: Host: Is that lineage from beyond the stars?

RealmLady: I haven't even realized a miniscule part of it yet Host

HOST LFST RB3000: Theban, yes, and beneath the sea, and at the end of the rainbow... :)

HOST LFST RB3000: RealmLady, actually, I believe you have. :)

Sconce88: faith is the acceptance of something without evidence

Galaxon: beneath the sea? an octopus' garden?

RealmLady: ok....mayhaps the tip of the iceberg.....

HOST LFST RB3000: Galaxon, precisely! :)\

Theban2000: Congratulations... you can now begin acting like a true "living God".

MetraDrakar: hee,hee Theban

Khiron1771: here's a question for you, 3K.........how do you function with a knowledge level similar to

Khiron1771: yours, in a world that doesn't understand? In a world that demands that you adhere to

Khiron1771: their guidelines?

HOST LFST RB3000: Khiron, I create my very own world -- miraculous, full of love and beauty,

HOST LFST RB3000: with nothing ever wrong or painful -- just intensities and flavors. :)

Khiron1771: 3K...this sounds like you've bailed from the mainstream.

Sconce88: guidelines and socialization lead to something narrow and worthwhile for the leaders, but

HOST LFST RB3000: Khiron, I never did make it in the mainstream, so I went my own way. :)

Khiron1771: 3k*

Sconce88: not the followers

Theban2000: What is the mainstream?

BConWise: rb...nothing ever wrong or painful...how is that possible?

HOST LFST RB3000: Theban, I guess just the societal agreement to hallucinate a "reality" of "facts" :)

Theban2000: Wise: It could be your own choice.

Theban2000: Thank you Host...

BConWise: ban...i just can't imagine having no pain or things never going wrong

BConWise: lady..i do

HOST LFST RB3000: BConWise, because "wrong" or "painful" are decisions we make about how

HOST LFST RB3000: to regard our experience, not the experience itself! :)

Sconce88: what makes someone great is how much greater the world is around him

RealmLady: very true Host....

BConWise: rb..alright

RealmLady: have no idea how to "get" there though

HOST LFST RB3000: ... but then those decisions *become* our "experience" see?

BConWise: yes i do

Theban2000: Only our perception of the events can be wrong or painful...

Khiron1771: Theban...it's the reality of rent, utility bills, gotta find an acceptable-to-the masses

Khiron1771: source of income kinda thingy.

HOST LFST RB3000: Theban, right-- and the story that we keep telling ourselves about it, see?

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 19] 5/10/2001 09:30 PM

RealmLady: may i correct Theban.....only our perception of the events can make it wrong or painful....

Sconce88: faces in the crowd, yourself in other forms?

Theban2000: Thank you Realm...

Litegvr: I have done that myself 3k

BConWise: so you're talking about mental anguish not physical pain..right?

RealmLady: if our perception is that it just "was".....doesnt' make us take it wrong or painful

HOST LFST RB3000: One of those stories is "I have to keep grinding away at this job that I

HOST LFST RB3000: hate, that doesn't pay me enough money and doesn't value me, until I die

HOST LFST RB3000: from it, proving that it was never fair", etc.

RealmLady: *smiles* Theban

Litegvr: can look at 25 yrs..as training... a lesson to prepare me for spirit tasks..with insight

Litegvr: learned

HOST LFST RB3000: Litegvr, how so?

JLook91968: Lady... so is there ever a reason to say something was wrong, or painful?

Litegvr: or view the abuse..as victim...and wear depression/sadness

Khiron1771: 3K....ya forgot..."..so I'm such a misunderstood, righteous person." :)

Litegvr: must confess the human part of me..struggles to hang onto that pain thing

Sconce88: to be spiritual is to be unfocused on the task at hand

HOST LFST RB3000: JLook, we seem to always come up with sufficient "reasons", don't we? :)

RealmLady: I don't believe so JL.....but not all would agree....

HOST LFST RB3000: Khiron, oh, yeah-- I forgot. :)

Khiron1771: :)

JLook91968: Lady... might some consider that attitude a first cousin to the chaos theory thing?

MARBLUESTAR: we are discussing pain?

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, why do you suppose that? My spirituality says that I am totally

HOST LFST RB3000: present with whatever I am doing, without judgment or prejudice. Is that wrong?

Sconce88: the worlds of us change, as the same earth turns

Khiron1771: what an absolute WILD time we live in!!! We're witnessing the evolution from impersonal

HOST LFST RB3000: MARBLUESTAR, really, how to not regard any experience as "pain" :)

JLook91968: that there is no order basically...

Khiron1771: slavery to honor of the personal creativity.

Khiron1771: ain't it great?

MetraDrakar: again ...as Kryon suggested stop thinking so much )

MARBLUESTAR: how does one achieve that?

Sconce88: belief in jesus demands intolerance, therefore all belief is intolerant

MetraDrakar: pssst Marblue ) perhaps stop thinking certain words..thoughts...with feelings...yet know

JLook91968: there ya go.... if a warm smile can "be" then why not pain? or a sad tear?

MetraDrakar: you are a spirit (soul) a light being have a hu-man experience

HOST LFST RB3000: MetraDrakar, can anyone really *decide* just to *stop* thinking???

HOST LFST RB3000: Two weeks from now: How our work against negativity and internal chatter creates

HOST LFST RB3000: the Dream Double and the Astral Body.

HOST LFST RB3000: Suggested reading: Second Ring of Power, The Eagle's Gift, The Fire from Within and The Power of Silence by Castaneda; Being in Dreaming by Florinda Donner Grau; In Search of the Miraculous by P.D. Ouspensky. Your own suggestions?

Khiron1771: how bout turn off the memorex tapes, and become YOU?

Sconce88: alan watts, beyond theology

Theban2000: Sacred Refraction by Yum Razams.

OWLSprit9: Khiron....love the way you put that :)>

HOST LFST RB3000: Sconce, thanks-- Watts is pretty good.

MARBLUESTAR: as taught in Star Wars..........Act without thinking

Galaxon: if one makes a decision, it is a thought..so if you think to not think..you still think

MetraDrakar: BEing is not about thinking

MetraDrakar: it is about LOVE

StellaWolf: ouch, you hurt my head, Gala

HOST LFST RB3000: MARBLUESTAR, don't we have way too much acting without thinking already???

Galaxon: they accuse me of being clever..but i never expeirenced it

Blue Rose Soul: then after that point gala? ; )

MetraDrakar: yet are you thinking Gala or doing?)

Blue Rose Soul: denial is a wonderful thing. Ive seem some blissfully not "thinking"

MetraDrakar: first came perhaps the thought...then action ..what is action ?)

Sconce88: an illusion is a reality not taken

Shiftgood1: Blue yes it is. Especially when it comes to metaphysics

MetraDrakar: well Marblue, it could be seen or thought as irresponsible acting

HOST LFST RB3000: FRIENDS, you seem to have a good thang goin' here, whereas I am turning

HOST LFST RB3000: into a pumpkin... I'll see y'all in two weeks (and also each Wednesday

HOST LFST RB3000: midnight).

MetraDrakar: it is the game...the ego is playing..what is right or wrong..and there is no right or wrong

Sconce88: its not a matter of pursuing truth, but what illusion is best for survival.

MetraDrakar: sharing experience wisdom Love is

BConWise: bye host

HOST LFST RB3000: Good night, sweet dreams, all. <poof>

Log Entry: The New Age [Members - 27] 5/10/2001 09:39 PM